-Frank

I wanted to quickly comment on the TDD. I think Sebastian has made real strides in extolling the virtues of testing, especially with all his great work with PHPUnit. As well, PHP held a month of testing with a “testfest” in May (and improvements in testing tools like SimpleTest are making it easier for everybody), and if you ask any truly professional PHP developer if he/she tests the code, the answer will likely be “yes!” So I think it's getting better as time progresses and the TDD advocates continue to educate the masses. The mindset may not be completely there yet, but like you said, the reason is PHP's pragmatic nature and the low barrier to entry. Of course this has been said before, but PHP's strengths are also it's weaknesses – you make something easy to learn and use, and everybody will easily learn and use it… traditional programmers and hobbyists alike. Such is the case with version control, I think. Its importance and application is gradually seeping down through the ranks, but honestly, when you're the only web developer there (doing design, development, sysadmin, everything)… version control may just seem like a big pita. Of course, it only serves to help yourself, but some likely still need convincing. :)

As far as the “tabs versus spaces” debate goes, that's just another example of a PHP strength/weakness – its flexibility. There are 1000 ways to get something done in PHP, which means that every programmer will do it his/her own way (which is also likely not the same way as everyone else). But personally, I love that freedom and that control. I love being able to decide what *I* think the best way is to get from Point A to Point B. This is also why, despite popular opinion, I love the fact that there are 47 million PHP frameworks. You can choose to use whichever one you want. Or none at all. Or write your own (which is what many people end up doing.) A lot of people see this as another reason PHP shouldn't be taken seriously, but I love the freedom of choice. (Which is also why I think commenting your code is crucial, especially in a PHP script – you have to give insight to future maintainers not only what you're doing, but why you chose to do things that way… but that's another story for another time.)

I won't bash Ruby or Rails, or Python, or Perl, or Erlang (mostly because I don't understand it), or other languages that are helping someone somewhere accomplish what they need to get done. I think that's like saying “my car is better than your car,” when all a car really does is get you to your destination.

-Frank

I wanted to quickly comment on the TDD. I think Sebastian has made real strides in extolling the virtues of testing, especially with all his great work with PHPUnit. As well, PHP held a month of testing with a “testfest” in May (and improvements in testing tools like SimpleTest are making it easier for everybody), and if you ask any truly professional PHP developer if he/she tests the code, the answer will likely be “yes!” So I think it's getting better as time progresses and the TDD advocates continue to educate the masses. The mindset may not be completely there yet, but like you said, the reason is PHP's pragmatic nature and the low barrier to entry. Of course this has been said before, but PHP's strengths are also it's weaknesses – you make something easy to learn and use, and everybody will easily learn and use it… traditional programmers and hobbyists alike. Such is the case with version control, I think. Its importance and application is gradually seeping down through the ranks, but honestly, when you're the only web developer there (doing design, development, sysadmin, everything)… version control may just seem like a big pita. Of course, it only serves to help yourself, but some likely still need convincing. :)

As far as the “tabs versus spaces” debate goes, that's just another example of a PHP strength/weakness – its flexibility. There are 1000 ways to get something done in PHP, which means that every programmer will do it his/her own way (which is also likely not the same way as everyone else). But personally, I love that freedom and that control. I love being able to decide what *I* think the best way is to get from Point A to Point B. This is also why, despite popular opinion, I love the fact that there are 47 million PHP frameworks. You can choose to use whichever one you want. Or none at all. Or write your own (which is what many people end up doing.) A lot of people see this as another reason PHP shouldn't be taken seriously, but I love the freedom of choice. (Which is also why I think commenting your code is crucial, especially in a PHP script – you have to give insight to future maintainers not only what you're doing, but why you chose to do things that way… but that's another story for another time.)

I won't bash Ruby or Rails, or Python, or Perl, or Erlang (mostly because I don't understand it), or other languages that are helping someone somewhere accomplish what they need to get done. I think that's like saying “my car is better than your car,” when all a car really does is get you to your destination.